Posted by LD Frantin on January 23, 2008 at 14:37:55:
In Reply to: Re: Lets talk about Economic Democracy. posted by Dave Searles on January 21, 2008 at 06:24:47:
Both Rich R.'s questions & Dave Searles comments invite all of us to keep studying & keep thinking. Dave's clarity is pretty unbeatable tho. With the slanted, half-truth reportage it is indeed nearly impossible, at this time & where we sit, to actually
"know" & give a reasoned answer to R. Raimonde's questions about Chavez, Spain, Italy, etc. But having a sound basis for study & analysis of ANY global issue - such as D.Searles gives- is a solid basis on which to proceed. Worth re-reading!
One of the things I've often found with many'leftists' here & abroad, is how frequently & easily their attention shifts from THIS country's problems & real, proposed solutions -like our own approach advocating p Economic Democracy:Socialism thru organizing & peaceful change at the ballotbox- and moves to discussions about other countries, other places...of which we really know so little but about which it is so easy to speculate...resulting too often in a romanticisation of the problems & realities. That's not to say we aren't interested or intrigued about how things are working elsewhere! But in the end, the ultimate focus must return to us, to OUR country,our problems, what WE can do HERE.
So, I'd say we have to always keep a watchful eye on anyone or any country calling themselves "socialist or economic democracies" we can't expect a true reading-especially 'as they are happening'. We may have to just wait & watch. I recall the terrific waste of so much good energy & intelligence in the USA during WWII & the 50's & 60's when Russia (meaning Stalinism) was being defended by well-meaning people, at the very time it was a brutally oppressive regime that enslaved working people, built up a State-controlled autocratic system,suppressed any attempt to create democratic workplaces or civic institutions & demanded terrible sacrifices from working people while the Party fat-cats dictated from above. And did it all in the name of "Socialism" or "Communism"! Many here & abroad were fooled, and Capitalists were eager to smear the whole idea of democratic socialism, and DID -setting progress back for generations. And mainly because people were so eager to see hope where it did not exist! Nearly ninety years later we are left STILL trying to undo the lies.
So, while we 'root' for the people of Venezuela & all other nations, we can only hope they keep Chavez et al "in their control", remain clear on the democratic goals, work to improve conditions & help each other to seek ways out of the IMF & World Bank traps, etc. But we have to also accept the frustration of not knowing whats really happening [except anecdotally/ unreliably by way of trips & visits by 'supporters'or detractors] Studying but withholding endorsement(as Rich is obviously doing, & Dave Searles suggests)is the wisest course, knowing conditions are very tough in any country struggling to deal within a capitalist global hegemony, & tough to see thru the fog of media propaganda. Keeping aware & curious, being your own news analyst, based on what Dave suggests, is probably best. And then continue trying to reach OUR own people with the conditions we really live with, right here & now.